Thida Thavornseth, 69, has been in the headlines since she became head of the United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD aka red shirts) after her husband, Pheu Thai MP Weng Tojirakarn, was arrested in the aftermath of the 2010 unrest. In the wake of the latest protests against the amnesty bill, BK chats with her about the UDD’s stance and her long involvement in politics. 

I’ve been fighting for people’s rights for so long, despite what some people think. I was there at the 1973 and 1976 incidents. At first, I was a just a micro-biology instructor who taught students. But then I saw troops brutally kill people in the middle of the university. I couldn’t ignore that. They were all innocent students. 
 
Seeing thousands of students flee to the jungle where communist troops were based drove me to the jungle, too. I was anxious about the conditions they would be going to live in. I shared the same political standpoint, so in the end I decided to go, too.
 
I joined the communist forces, but only partially agreed with them. They were divided ideologically and I wasn’t convinced that they could bring us success. I finally came out from the jungle and went back to teach after the government declared a kind of amnesty.
 
With the arrival of capitalism I turned my back on being a civil servant. I decided to quit my job at the university and start various businesses, including playing the stock market.
 
Being in business circles helped me see through situations, like the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD)’s protest against Thaksin Shinawatra, led by Sondhi Limthongkul [the media mogul]. Sondhi is clever. He told people some information but not all of it. Thaksin could in fact sell his stock without paying tax; that’s the law. I feel lucky that I had quit my job, otherwise I would have been duped like the other university professors who joined the protest.
 
I bet that if there had been no coup d’état in 2006, Thaksin’s party would have lost lots of seats in parliament, anyway. But after the coup, he automatically gained legitimacy in the eyes of many. 
 
No matter how much your leader sucks, you can’t kick them out of office through guns. It must happen through people power. The so-called “good people” who supported the coup d’état are actually the bad guys. 
 
You must know your allies. They are friends but they can’t be anything and everything that you wish for. 
 
Thaksin is not the leader of the people’s fight. He’s the head of Thai Rak Thai, the man behind Pheu Thai, but not the leader of the people’s fight. We are in league but we aren’t always united. If they do things to benefit the people, we’re in. But if they don’t, we’re out.
 
Righteousness is the most important quality for an activist. There is no dignity in supporting the amnesty bill. Even leaders of the United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) agree they would rather go to jail instead of being let off by this bill.
 
Regular people are always the ones left waiting for justice, while politicians never wait. Waiting is an injustice for them. 
 
No matter how desperately they want to help Thaksin through this bill, they can’t because in the end, article 309 [protecting action taken under the 2006 constitution] in the constitution is the biggest obstacle.
 
When someone kicks you in the teeth, you have to grow wary. Though the Pheu Thai government called it quits on the amnesty bill, people have seen that they did wrong in even proposing it. It’s already stirred up a lot of doubt in the minds of red shirts. This is good. I’m proud that we are growing up in terms of political thought. 
 
Administrations want people to be stupid, so they can be controlled easily. It’s contrary to grassroots organizations which want smart people to control the administration. This is what we teach in the red shirts movement. 
 
The red shirts are concentrating on fighting the elite bureaucrats who hold the power of this country. If the elites just divide us into two sides, buffalos and educated “good people,” then Thailand won’t go anywhere. 
 
Higher education won’t make you smart if your objectives aren’t for the benefit of people. Those who are truly smart are those with little education yet who do things for the people. They are definitely smarter than doctors.
 
Turn all information into knowledge. My family didn’t all have the same political stance at first, but we respected each other. Once we had all the information, though, we finally got in tune with each other.
 
My husband turned his back on being a yellow shirt. My son is now interested in the red shirts activities, too.
 
Morals and ethics are just words that elite bureaucrats use as excuses. Don’t boast about your high education if you can’t give people the right to vote. You can’t just say the majority of voters are stupid, and then get paid to vote for the bad guys. Who’s the judge?
 
I don’t expect everyone to be equal—we can’t all be rich, sure. But if you say you’re good people, then listen to the people’s voice.
 
A fully free society will make corruption difficult. The media and people must have the freedom to speak out about what’s wrong in society. But today’s media are at the mercy of capitalism. Employees are fed money so that they are afraid they will lose their job if they tell the truth. 
 
Stop being a coward if you want to get rid of wrongdoers. If people don’t dare to say the truth, we will never move forward.

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